One thing immediately catches Nancy Wilson’s eye when she joins our Zoom call.
“I love your T-shirt,” the legendary Heart guitarist says about my Brian Wilson “Pet Sounds” tour souvenir from 2017.
As it turns out, the Beach Boys mastermind has been on Wilson’s mind – as well as her playlist – quite a bit since he died in June. So, latching onto the precious chance to hear one rock icon talk about another, we stayed on the Wilson subject for a few minutes.
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We also chatted about Heart’s early days, the lingering sexism that exists in the music business, the group’s induction to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and – most surprisingly – how Heart really got its start as an Ethel Merman cover band.
It was a fun conversation, conducted in advance of the fret wizard’s return – with sister Ann Wilson and the other members of Heart – to the Bay Area. The Seattle-born hard-rock act performs Aug. 10 at Chase Center in San Francisco. Todd Rundgren opens the concert. Showtime is 7 p.m. and tickets are $70, chasecenter.com.
Q: Good to talk with you, Nancy. I’m really glad you love my shirt. I dig it, too. Brian most definitely will be missed.
A: I was just going back to the “Smile” album (2004) and listening to it once again. They did that with the Wondermints guys and Darian Sahanaja and Jeff Foskett – all these guys I used to know.
It was such a lovely gift that they surrounded (Brian), when he could still do that, and finished that with him. The result is fantastic. I got into the “Smile” album when it first came out. And now I’m listening to it every day again. Amazing stuff
Q: Jeff Foskett’s a San Jose guy, like me.
A: He was wonderful. All of those guys were so fantastic. And they just made it their pilgrimage to be Team Brian, and be around him, for finishing kind of his life work – his genius opus that was “Smile.”
I texted some of those guys and was like, “Thank you for doing that — for Brian.” It was just a wonderful thing to put into history before it was never finished.
Q: Did you know Brian?
A: I met Brian a few times over the years. We opened for the Beach Boys a couple of times. And nobody was there for Heart — (the fans) didn’t know us yet.
Ann made the mistake one fateful day — I think it was somewhere in Philadelphia — when we were opening for them and she said, “OK, we’ve got two more songs to go!” And everybody (in the crowd) was like, “Yay! Get off! We want the Beach Boys.”
Q: I love that story. Tell me another.
A: There was a simplicity about (Brian), probably because of his traumatic youth and mental state and the various things he had to overcome and survive during his lifetime.
One time we were passing in a lobby — in Japan — and a fan gave him an album to sign. And he signed it and we walked on by. And the fan goes, “Wait — he put ‘Brian Brian’ on here.’ He forgot the Wilson part.
Q: Do you have other memories of being an opening act way back in the day? Maybe ones there the pairing did – or perhaps didn’t – work out?
A: Usually, it didn’t work. We were on a lot of big festivals in the ‘70s with guys like Head East and a lot of boogie bands from the South. I think it was Head East, or one of those bands, and we were kicking ass opening for them. We were doing “Crazy on You” — which was a big hit at the moment — and we were going over the time allotment of when their set was supposed to start. And they pulled the plug — the power chord, the snake — on us and it just stopped the show. Suddenly, we were mid-song and all you could hear was the drums. I think we were too good and they didn’t like it.
Q: I know the band has faced a lot of sexism over the years, especially when you were starting out in the early ‘70s. I bet there were a lot of times when you were performing in front of skeptical crowds — ones that primarily came out to see the male headliners — and then just ended up totally winning them over.
A: We saw that quite a bit. Still, today, nobody is ready to see big, strong, kind of burly girls up there on the stage, fronting a rock band. People have always had such a dichotomy between “how do you maintain your femininity while you are up there playing that great big loud rock guitar?” It’s like, “Why is it one or the other?” It’s like binary thinking that still plagues us to this day.
We always defied the gender descriptions and the gender identities of being man or woman up there.
I like to channel Jimmy Page and Paul McCartney and my heroes – Neil Young, Paul Simon, Joni Mitchell and people like that. Some men, some women. But mostly men where we came from. Zeppelin.
People are still amazed when we get up and kind of kick ass as women. I’m still amazed how they are so amazed.
Q: It must be sort of fun, though, to see those skeptical crowd members turn into big-time Heart fans during the course of a show.
A: Totally. And you know Ann, my sister, is a born-to-sing rock singer. She is a Chris Cornell or Robert Plant type of a rock singer. Even when she had to be sitting in a wheelchair for a little while, she was still just bringing it all the way – like a thousand percent. Right now, she’s sitting on a stool – she’s not wheeling around anymore – and people are just rooting for her so hard. They are just like, “How can she even do that while she is sitting down or standing halfway on a stool?” She’s just killing it.
There’s always the discussion of whether people are inherently good or they inherently idiots. But I think with music and rock fans — and people like Heart fans, who have always been with us — people are good. And they want to come out and they want to be inspired.
Q: I’m glad you brought up the subject of Ann’s health, especially since so many fans would appreciate an update on her battle against cancer. How is she doing these days?
A: She is fantastic. The last run we went on, she was in a chair. This run, she’s up on a stool and standing sometimes, too. She kicked the ass of cancer. Like I said, she was born to sing. And that’s where her ultimate fulfillment lies — and she’s hell bent to continue to do it.
On this press statement we are releasing, she said: “I’m very proud to be part of it all. And I will give all of myself to do it as long as we both shall live.”
That’s the promise we make with our lives — to do this work and to enjoy doing it and bring joy by doing it.
Q: When did you first discover your sister had this gigantic monster singing voice? Was it early on?
A: It’s a funny story. We always listened to music in our household. It was Ray Charles and Aretha Franklin and show tunes and Judy Garland. We would spin those records and play those tapes in our living room. We were steeped in every type of music, including classical and opera.
In our family, we would play ukulele and sing these old pub songs. And the “Hawaiian Wedding Song” was one of those songs. (Ann) had heard Ethel Merman sing it … and she thought it was hysterical because Ethel Merman would be like (delivering a better-than-decent Merman impersonation) “This is the moment!”
So, Ann learned how to imitate Ethel Merman as a joke. And it was so good, it was so loud – her projection was so impressive – that my mom and dad would be like, “Girls, come on downstairs and show the folks at the party your Ethel Merman impersonation.” So, we’d go down there and I’d play the little guitar part to “Hawaiian Wedding Song” and she’d just belt to the room. And it was a good laugh every time. So, that’s kind of where it all started.
Q: That’s going to be my headline right there: “How rock group Heart began its career as an Ethel Merman cover band.”
A: (Laughts) Right? Well, you know, Ann’s Ethel Merman is still not to be matched. She can still do it today, obviously.
Q: What did it mean to get into Rock and Roll Hall of Museum in 2013?
A: It really did mean the world. We do not have, what we like to call, the Seattle Musicians Disease – the reluctant heroes. Those guys in the ‘90s – who are all really close to us to this day – were reluctant to go on the MTV awards and get those awards. They were pushing back against the corporate ‘80s, which was one of the great things about their music in the ‘90s. Like “Smells Like Teen Spirit” kicked the ass of the ‘80s.
But when we got our lifetime achievement award (from the Grammys) and our Rock and Roll Hall of Fame award, we were like, “I’ll take it.” Because this represents a life’s work — all of the discomfort and all of the sacrifice that you put in from the time you were, in my case, like 19 until today. It’s a life’s work — all the travel, and trying to balance the kids with your career, and even having kids at all.
It’s an acknowledgement of how hard the work was to get this far — and to continue to be here. That’s even more unlikely and astounding — that we are still doing it and we are still able to play big rock shows in every type of room.
And the little kids are showing up. And the college students are showing up. That, in itself, is the most rewarding part, I think. Because it’s not just the die-hard Heart fans who are coming. It’s also their kids and the grandkids.